Has anyone looked into the product by www.hype ric.com before?

[Ben Clewett]

Ton & Others,

Sorry, I checked, you are right.  You *can* change for GPL software. 
However the source code must be available, and therefore the product is 
also free.  As Bernd said, 'if you find a customer is another question'.

What I really meant therefore was:  You can't *force* people to pay for 
GPL code.  Accept for model MySQL have adopted.

As you say, if they don't fork the code, this would be great.  There 
must be a large number of corporate companies who would respect Nagios 
more if a commercial support license and support was available.

Ben

Voon, Ton wrote:

> Ben,
> 
> This is a misconception - you can sell GPL code:
> http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DoesTheGPLAllowMoney
> 
> The main requirement for publishers of GPL code is that you have to make the
> source code available. So Plumtree could do this: 
> 
> - Take Nagios as their backend monitoring service
> - Make whatever modifications to the core Nagios code depending on what
> their customers want
> - Charge for the software (and any associated support costs)
> 
> The GPL insists that changes to that core code must be available to their
> customers (but any custom software that does not include GPL code can be
> kept private - cf the open source Darwin of MacOSX and their propritary
> Quartz rendering engine). 
> 
> These changes do not have to be submitted back to the Nagios community.
> However, in my view, to be a "good citizen", those modifications should come
> back to us for inclusion into future versions. In return, we would be happy
> to publicise their involvement. 
> 
> I think this is a win-win-win situation: we get increased quality in code,
> Plumtree get to supply monitoring services for a lower startup cost and
> customers get great software that helps their business.
> 
> Ton
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben Clewett [mailto:Ben at clewett.org.uk] 
> Sent: 25 May 2004 09:38
> To: Voon, Ton
> Cc: 'Jason Truong'; nagios-users at lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Nagios-users] Has anyone looked into the product by www.hype
> ric.com before?
> 
> Ton,
> 
> Just a comment.  I had an argument in some depth with MySQL about why they
> force people to buy there product.  My understanding is, and I hope other
> people will correct me:
> 
> You can't sell GPL as-is.
> 
> You can sell support licenses, installation, the hardware it sits on,
> configuration, help, the box and CD's it comes in.  But not the program.
> 
> MySQL *claim* you can sell GPL code if a you extend the product and sell the
> result.  Therefore breaking the GPL.  You are effectively buy a license
> which revokes the GPL for your specific case.
> 
> MySQL further claim than an extension of GPL includes any product which uses
> any part of theirs, and no other interoperable system.  Which includes use
> of the GPL drivers and other code used within foreign code.
> 
> Therefore if any other company took Nagios, used any part of it as the 
> basis of another product which they then sold, this is illigal.   But 
> you can charge them a wopping great license to revoke the GPL....
> 
> This can be changed by adopting the LGPL license, which waves rights on your
> code used in foreign code.  Which is the same as the BSD license used by
> PostgreSQL.
> 
> Further information from MySQL.
> 
> It must be noted that all of this is untested by law, including MySQL's
> claims that there interperation is correct.
> 
> Ben
> 
> 
> Voon, Ton wrote:
> 
>>I don't see why you cannot repackage Nagios and sell the service - in 
>>fact, the GNU licence allows you to do that. What you cannot do is 
>>remove the GNU licence or the copyrights.
>>
>>Other companies "make money" from opensource software. Apple use a 
>>version of FreeBSD as the core of their MacOSX. Red Hat make money 
>>from distributing Linux. Webhosting companies use Apache to sell their
> 
> services.
> 
>>The key, I think, is to be open about it ("Plumtree use Nagios as the 
>>core of our monitoring software") and show that you are "being a good 
>>citizen" by contributing back changes and generally helping to improve 
>>the codebase. I would be happy to credit Plumtree for any patches that 
>>you provide to show your participation.
>>
>>As for commercial support, http://nagios.org lists a few companies 
>>that will provide you an extra level of support if your customers have 
>>problems that you cannot fix internally. I'm sure you could partner with
> 
> one of them.
> 
>>My point is, I wouldn't rule out Nagios just because it is opensource. 
>>If you think it is a good product, then your customers will too.
>>
>>Ton
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Jason Truong [mailto:Jason.Truong at plumtree.com]
>>Sent: 25 May 2004 00:02
>>To: nagios-users at lists.sourceforge.net
>>Subject: [Nagios-users] Has anyone looked into the product by 
>>www.hyperic.com before?
>>
>>Internally we use Nagios.  I have been using for quite some time and 
>>love it.  Our company is looking into something like Nagios but 
>>packaging it into a product to help monitor our product, the Plumtree
> 
> portal.
> 
>>Has anyone looked into http://www.hyperic.com/ before?  The folks in 
>>upper management are looking for a company to partner up with.
>>
>>If anyone knows of a better commercial product, can you please give me 
>>your suggestions.  The portal manager is looking for something like 
>>Nagios, network/systems management tool, but with commercial support.  
>>I don't think that Plumtree can package Nagios since that would break 
>>some of the legal aspects of using opensource.  I personally love 
>>Nagios and would not want my company to re-package Nagios and try to 
>>sell it as a add-on package/service without giving back to Nagios.  
>>(sorry I don't understand the licensing all too well)
>>
>>Thank you,
>>
>>Jason Truong
>>Plumtree Software
>>(415) 399-7006
> 
> 
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