Has anyone looked into the product by www.hype ric.com before?

[Andreas Ericsson]

Ben Clewett wrote:
> Ton & Others,
> 
> Sorry, I checked, you are right.  You *can* change for GPL software. 
> However the source code must be available, and therefore the product is 
> also free.  As Bernd said, 'if you find a customer is another question'.
> 
Finding customers is really, really easy. We've been selling it for 
about a year and a half, and now we're up to about 35 customers.


> What I really meant therefore was:  You can't *force* people to pay for 
> GPL code.  Accept for model MySQL have adopted.
> 
No, but you can force them to pay for a packaged *solution* of 
opensource products. We integrate nagios with cacti and a bunch of other 
utilities and tools, and customers are delighted that we have taken the 
month or two to package everything for them. We also have an 
auto-configuration tool which enables us to set them up and running in 
absolutely notime. If they were to implement everything themselves, it 
would take the better time of a year.

> As you say, if they don't fork the code, this would be great.  There 
> must be a large number of corporate companies who would respect Nagios 
> more if a commercial support license and support was available.
> 
That's what you're supposed to sell, and what a number of companies are 
selling. Check out nagios.org for a list of many of them.


> Ben
> 
> Voon, Ton wrote:
> 
>> Ben,
>>
>> This is a misconception - you can sell GPL code:
>> http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DoesTheGPLAllowMoney
>>
>> The main requirement for publishers of GPL code is that you have to 
>> make the
>> source code available. So Plumtree could do this:
>> - Take Nagios as their backend monitoring service
>> - Make whatever modifications to the core Nagios code depending on what
>> their customers want
>> - Charge for the software (and any associated support costs)
>>
>> The GPL insists that changes to that core code must be available to their
>> customers (but any custom software that does not include GPL code can be
>> kept private - cf the open source Darwin of MacOSX and their propritary
>> Quartz rendering engine).
>> These changes do not have to be submitted back to the Nagios community.
>> However, in my view, to be a "good citizen", those modifications 
>> should come
>> back to us for inclusion into future versions. In return, we would be 
>> happy
>> to publicise their involvement.
>> I think this is a win-win-win situation: we get increased quality in 
>> code,
>> Plumtree get to supply monitoring services for a lower startup cost and
>> customers get great software that helps their business.
>>
>> Ton
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ben Clewett [mailto:Ben at clewett.org.uk] Sent: 25 May 2004 09:38
>> To: Voon, Ton
>> Cc: 'Jason Truong'; nagios-users at lists.sourceforge.net
>> Subject: Re: [Nagios-users] Has anyone looked into the product by 
>> www.hype
>> ric.com before?
>>
>> Ton,
>>
>> Just a comment.  I had an argument in some depth with MySQL about why 
>> they
>> force people to buy there product.  My understanding is, and I hope other
>> people will correct me:
>>
>> You can't sell GPL as-is.
>>
>> You can sell support licenses, installation, the hardware it sits on,
>> configuration, help, the box and CD's it comes in.  But not the program.
>>
>> MySQL *claim* you can sell GPL code if a you extend the product and 
>> sell the
>> result.  Therefore breaking the GPL.  You are effectively buy a license
>> which revokes the GPL for your specific case.
>>
>> MySQL further claim than an extension of GPL includes any product 
>> which uses
>> any part of theirs, and no other interoperable system.  Which includes 
>> use
>> of the GPL drivers and other code used within foreign code.
>>
>> Therefore if any other company took Nagios, used any part of it as the 
>> basis of another product which they then sold, this is illigal.   But 
>> you can charge them a wopping great license to revoke the GPL....
>>
>> This can be changed by adopting the LGPL license, which waves rights 
>> on your
>> code used in foreign code.  Which is the same as the BSD license used by
>> PostgreSQL.
>>
>> Further information from MySQL.
>>
>> It must be noted that all of this is untested by law, including MySQL's
>> claims that there interperation is correct.
>>
>> Ben
>>
>>
>> Voon, Ton wrote:
>>
>>> I don't see why you cannot repackage Nagios and sell the service - in 
>>> fact, the GNU licence allows you to do that. What you cannot do is 
>>> remove the GNU licence or the copyrights.
>>>
>>> Other companies "make money" from opensource software. Apple use a 
>>> version of FreeBSD as the core of their MacOSX. Red Hat make money 
>>> from distributing Linux. Webhosting companies use Apache to sell their
>>
>>
>> services.
>>
>>> The key, I think, is to be open about it ("Plumtree use Nagios as the 
>>> core of our monitoring software") and show that you are "being a good 
>>> citizen" by contributing back changes and generally helping to 
>>> improve the codebase. I would be happy to credit Plumtree for any 
>>> patches that you provide to show your participation.
>>>
>>> As for commercial support, http://nagios.org lists a few companies 
>>> that will provide you an extra level of support if your customers 
>>> have problems that you cannot fix internally. I'm sure you could 
>>> partner with
>>
>>
>> one of them.
>>
>>> My point is, I wouldn't rule out Nagios just because it is 
>>> opensource. If you think it is a good product, then your customers 
>>> will too.
>>>
>>> Ton
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Jason Truong [mailto:Jason.Truong at plumtree.com]
>>> Sent: 25 May 2004 00:02
>>> To: nagios-users at lists.sourceforge.net
>>> Subject: [Nagios-users] Has anyone looked into the product by 
>>> www.hyperic.com before?
>>>
>>> Internally we use Nagios.  I have been using for quite some time and 
>>> love it.  Our company is looking into something like Nagios but 
>>> packaging it into a product to help monitor our product, the Plumtree
>>
>>
>> portal.
>>
>>> Has anyone looked into http://www.hyperic.com/ before?  The folks in 
>>> upper management are looking for a company to partner up with.
>>>
>>> If anyone knows of a better commercial product, can you please give 
>>> me your suggestions.  The portal manager is looking for something 
>>> like Nagios, network/systems management tool, but with commercial 
>>> support.  I don't think that Plumtree can package Nagios since that 
>>> would break some of the legal aspects of using opensource.  I 
>>> personally love Nagios and would not want my company to re-package 
>>> Nagios and try to sell it as a add-on package/service without giving 
>>> back to Nagios.  (sorry I don't understand the licensing all too well)
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>> Jason Truong
>>> Plumtree Software
>>> (415) 399-7006
>>
>>
>>
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-- 
Sourcerer / Andreas Ericsson
OP5 AB
+46 (0)733 709032
andreas.ericsson at op5.se


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