Please define "defined" in this context

[Marc Powell]

On Jun 3, 2009, at 10:22 AM, Whit Blauvelt wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 09:27:58AM -0500, Marc Powell wrote:
>
>> All the objects are referenced as Definitions so 'not defined'  
>> isn't art
>> so much as English.
>
> Hi Marc,
>
> Thanks for all the pointers. When you say "All the objects are  
> referenced as
> Definitions" - capitalizing "Definitions" makes it clear it's a term  
> of art.
>
> I take it then that the inability of the .cfg file to simply  
> function like
> those of many other configuration files in the *nix universe and  
> pass on
> flags is a constraint imposed by OOP architectural philosophy?

Which config model are you referencing? The Apache model where you can  
specify Options parameters to a ServerAlias directive and expect it to  
work? Perhaps the Bind model where the 'masters{}' directive makes  
perfect sense when used with 'type master'? Maybe it's the UCD-SNMPd  
model where syslocation information can be specified on com2sec lines?  
The point being that there's no coherent config model in widespread  
use, many programs use their own, and it's reasonable to expect a need  
to understand the specific config model used by a program before  
jumping in and complaining when things don't work based on your  
assumptions. Flags work, but they need to be put in the right place  
(or places depending on the complexity/flexibility you want).

> It looks a bit like needless multiplication of entities to a naive  
> view like mine. But
> I'm sure I'll get used to it.

Quite the opposite. The config model actually provides for great  
simplification and reduction of entities in most circumstances and  
great flexibility for more complex systems.

> I'm sure at some point the documentation will all come into focus  
> too. At
> first acquaintance, it's sketchy, scattered and disorganized. I've  
> been
> doing various sorts of coding and sysadmin for 20 years,

As have I which makes your commentary about the documentation, and the  
initial presentation of your question even more baffling. You profess  
to not be a newbie, but you did some very newbie things; therefore,  
you got a newbie response. As far as the quality, or lack thereof, of  
the documentation, all I can say is that it was more than sufficient  
for me to grasp the concepts you're asking about, even skimming, and  
sufficient for many other nagios users. Commentary is usually 9-1 that  
the documentation is as good or better than many other projects. A  
very significant number of questions to this list are answered in the  
documentation, either directly or by understanding the concepts  
detailed there.

> Nor would it be helpful to just read the whole thing - trying
> to absorb "Passive Host State Translation" and other arcane,  
> specialized
> topics leads to cognitive overload and side-tracking, not an answer  
> to the
> pragmatic question of why Nagios config files don't follow the norms  
> of
> the *nix space.

So skip the 'arcane' topics,  start with this from the Advice for  
Beginners section. It's not unreasonable --

3. Read the documentation. Nagios can be tricky to configure when  
you've got a good grasp of what's going on, and nearly impossible if  
you don't. Make sure you read the documentation (particularly the  
sections on "Configuring Nagios" and "The Basics"). Save the advanced  
topics for when you've got a good understanding of the basics.

> Nothing against that! Nagios has strong capabilities, and I'm  
> committed to
> use it.

Indeed it does and it can be very powerful. There's a reason it's  
popular and the cost isn't primary, I'd say.

> Maybe at some point I should contribute to the documentation, once I  
> have a
> good working overview myself.

I'm sure it would be welcome.

--
Marc


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