<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 12:04 PM, Andreas Ericsson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ae@op5.se">ae@op5.se</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"> <div class="im">On 05/17/2011 02:41 PM, nap wrote:<br> > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 2:27 PM, Andreas Ericsson<<a href="mailto:ae@op5.se">ae@op5.se</a>> wrote:<br> ><br> ><br> <br> </div>Because overloading objects to mean many different things is a<br> concept that confuses users and therefore sucks arse.<br> <div class="im"><br></div></blockquote><div>But I think we just push the template logic. When you want to "define" what an host is, you define how it's checked and who is notified. I think it's more logicial to explain to a user than if it's a linux server that got an Oracle database it should be use Linux,Oracle than Linux and then add a new property for al Oracle stuff. Admins don't care about hosts and services, it's just a matter of internal dependencies. <br> <br>It will be easier for them to add contacts of Oracle admins in the same template that define Oracle services than to add it in the first host template or a new one you need to add in the end. (maybe I'm not clear here...)<br> <br> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class="im"> > And the Linux, Oracle, WhatEver are regular host templates, with some<br> > services templates linked for each of them. It's more natural for users to<br> > think about "templates" than to use a new property. So for example the Linux<br> > template will add linux admins as contacts and will add all Linux standard<br> > services checks (/, /var, memory, swap,...).<br> ><br> <br> </div>Not really. You're considering users that are already very<br> familiar with Nagios. I'm considering the ones that have no<br> clue what so ever.<br></blockquote><div>That why I think it's more logical to gave all "properties" of an host in the same "use" property. It hide a level of complexity (host property vs service one) to users that don't have to manage all of this. They just want simple service sets, not to understand all Nagios internals. For them, the same object should allow to add windows contacts and windows services. If you separate the host property than the service it will be linked too, it will be just more complex for them.<br> </div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> <div class="im"><br> > We already got all elements we need (template on template is not allowed,<br> <br> </div>template on template *is* allowed. I have no idea what gave you the<br> notion it's not, but a service-template can use another template<br> just fine.<br></blockquote><div>I talk about service template on host templates, not service over service that is hopefully allowed :)<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> <div class="im"><br> > it will be easier for<br> > configuration tools than a new object.<br> <br> </div>I doubt it. Hacking in code in Nacoma to handle nested compounds<br> took all of 35 minutes.<br></blockquote><div>I thought about managing, linking, checking, etc the new object than just parsing it, but if it's easy, it's not a problem so.<br> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> <div class="im"><br> > It will be just like your solution<br> > N°2 a little more hard to exchange such "sets" (but in the sample<br> > configuration we can just put a configuration file by sets for example).<br> ><br> <br> </div>With the added problem that the service set name is horribly<br> denormalized and has to be printed on everything that gets attached<br> to it as well as everything that uses it, when it really should only<br> ever be printed at the sites that use it so objects can be safely<br> removed without leaving leftovers all over the place.<br></blockquote><div>I don't understand this, can you give me an example? Is it that when you want to remove such an set you just need to do it in one place?<br><br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> <div class="im"><br> > It's what we add in Shinken, and it work quite well :)<br> ><br> <br> </div>I'll have to look at a sample of that someday I think. It sounds<br> terribly confusing, whereas service sets as nested compounds sounds<br> very, very simple to understand. Noone I've explained them to have<br> asked about the value of them or how they work, at least.<br></blockquote><div>I think it's a bit more hard to "see" what is in the set it's true. But with it you can use the same "service" in several sets, and will be easier for admins that configure hosts because they just need to add templates and do not need to understand what is in it (the nagios admin can add contacts and services in this set, or just contacts or just sets, it's not something the host configuration admin need to know).<br> <br>I think "standard admins" are using more time to add new hosts than the nagios admin use to add new sets and manage all his template. If we want to help the most users, we should help "host configuration" admins first that do not understand all that they do, but just want a windows server with all classic service that the nagios admin prepared and the good contacts in the same way.<br> <br><br>Jean<br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> <font color="#888888"><br> --<br> </font><div class="im">Andreas Ericsson <a href="mailto:andreas.ericsson@op5.se">andreas.ericsson@op5.se</a><br> OP5 AB <a href="http://www.op5.se" target="_blank">www.op5.se</a><br> Tel: <a href="tel:%2B46%208-230225" value="+468230225">+46 8-230225</a> Fax: <a href="tel:%2B46%208-230231" value="+468230231">+46 8-230231</a><br> <br> </div><div><div></div><div class="h5">Considering the successes of the wars on alcohol, poverty, drugs and<br> terror, I think we should give some serious thought to declaring war<br> on peace.<br> </div></div></blockquote></div><br>